多莉·帕顿如何启发了我 Jad Abumrad: How Dolly Parton led me to an epiphany

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演员: Jad Abumrad


台词
I want to tell you about my search for purpose as a journalist
我这次想分享的, 是我身为记者寻找意义的旅程,
and how Dolly Parton helped me figure it out.
以及多莉·帕顿如何指引了我。
So I've been telling audio stories for about 20 years,
我讲了近二十年的有声故事,
first on the radio and then in podcasts.
先是电台,后来是播客。
When I started the radio show "Radiolab" in 2002,
2002 年我开始做 《Radiolab》电台节目,
here was the quintessential story move we would do.
那时每期节目都有很程序化的流程:
We'd bring on somebody --
我们会先邀请嘉宾——
(Audio) Steven Strogatz: It's one of the most hypnotic
(音频)史蒂文·斯特罗加兹(Steven Strogatz): 这可谓是大自然中
and spellbinding spectacles in nature,
最引人入胜的景象,
because, you have to keep in mind, it is absolutely silent.
别忘了,那可是个万赖俱寂的环境。
Jad Abumrad: Like this guy, mathematician, Steve Strogatz,
贾德·阿布穆拉德:譬如这个人, 数学家史蒂文·斯特罗加兹,
and he would paint a picture.
他会先描绘一个画面。
SS: Picture it. There's a riverbank in Thailand,
史蒂文:想象一下, 在泰国雨林深处
in the remote part of the jungle,
有片僻静的河岸,
you're in a canoe, slipping down the river.
你乘着一叶扁舟,顺流而下。
There's no sound of anything,
周围一片幽静,
maybe the occasional, you know, exotic jungle bird or something.
偶尔林间会传来三两声鸟叫虫鸣。
JA: So you're in this imaginary canoe with Steve,
贾德:史蒂夫带你走进了他的意象,
and in the air all around you are millions of fireflies.
空中围绕着成千上万只萤火虫。
And what you see is sort of a randomized starry-night effect.
你想象的应该是每只萤火虫 在不同的频率闪烁着,
Because all the fireflies are blinking at different rates.
营造出类似夜空中的繁星
Which is what you would expect.
随机闪耀的效果。
But according to Steve, in this one place,
但据史蒂夫所说,这个地方的景象
for reasons no scientist can fully explain --
就连科学家也无法解释——
SS: Whoop.
史蒂文:呜。
Whoop.
呜。
Whoop.
呜。
With thousands of lights on and then off, all in sync.
数千盏灯,一齐亮起,一齐熄灭。
(Music and electric sounds)
(音乐和电音)
JA: Now it's around this time
贾:一般这时,
that I would generally bring in the beautiful music, as I just did,
我就会插入柔美的音乐, 就像刚才那样,
and you'd start to get that warm feeling.
而你会开始有种温暖的感觉。
A feeling, that we know from science,
科学告诉我们,
kind of localizes in your head and chest
这种感觉从头部和胸腔而发,
and spreads through your body.
蔓延至全身。
It's that feeling of wonder.
那是一种惊奇感。
From 2002 to 2010, I did hundreds of these stories.
从 2002 年到 2010 年, 我做了上百期类似的故事节目。
Sciency, neurosciency, very heady, brainy stories
很多故事发人深思, 触及科学、神经学,
that would always resolve into that feeling of wonder.
最后总以那种惊奇感收尾。
And I began to see that as my job,
我把这视为我的工作,
to lead people to moments of wonder.
带领大家走向惊奇的刹那。
What that sounded like was:
大家的反应听上去都是:
(Various voices) "Huh!" "Wow!" "Wow!"
(各种声音) “嚯!” “哇!” “哇!‘
"That's amazing."
“太美妙了。”
"Whoa!" "Wow!"
“喔!” “哇!”
JA: But I began to get kind of tired of these stories.
贾:但我逐渐 对这些故事感到厌倦。
I mean, partially, it was the repetition.
部分归因于工作的重复性。
I remember there was a day I was sitting at the computer,
记得有一天, 我坐在电脑前
making the sound of a neuron.
制作神经元的音效。
(Crackling sound)
(噼啪声)
You know, take some white noise, chop it up, very easy sound to make.
做起来很简单, 剪辑一些白噪音即可。
I remember thinking, "I have made this sound 25 times."
我当时就想, “这音效我都做了 25 次了。”
But it was more than that --
但不仅如此——
there was a familiar path to these stories.
那些故事的情节也高度相似。
You walk the path of truth, which is made of science,
你在科学的真理之路上前行,
and you get to wonder.
惊奇感不断涌现。
Now, I love science, don't get me wrong.
当然,别误会,我热爱科学。
My parents emigrated from a war-torn country,
我的父母从战乱国家
came to America,
移民到美国,
and science for them was, like, more their identity than anything else,
科学对于他们来说, 更像是一种身份认同,
and I inherited that from them.
而我也继承了他们这一点。
But there was something about that simple movement
但那个简单的转换,
from science to wonder
从科学转到惊奇,
that just started to feel wrong to me.
让我感到哪里不太对劲。
Like, is that the only path a story can take?
譬如,难道故事只能这样发展吗?
Around 2012,
2012 年左右,
I ran into a bunch of different stories that made me think, "No."
我遇见了一堆不同的故事, 让我认为:“不,并非如此。”
One story in particular,
其中有一次,
where we interviewed a guy who described chemical weapons
我们采访了一个人,
being used against him and his fellow villagers
他说在老挝的山林中, 他和其它村民
in the mountains of Laos.
被化学武器攻击了。
Western scientists went there,
于是西方科学家前去
measured for chemical weapons, didn't find any.
检测化学武器的痕迹, 却一无所获。
We interviewed the man about this,
我们访谈时问了他,
he said the scientists were wrong.
他说科学家错了。
We said, "But they tested."
我们说:“可他们检测过了。”
He said, "I don't care, I know what happened to me."
他说:“我不在乎, 我知道自己经历了什么。”
And we went back and forth and back and forth,
我们继续交流着,
and make a long story short,
简单形容一下就是:
the interview ended in tears.
那次采访以泪水收场。
I felt ...
我感觉——
I felt horrible.
我感觉糟糕透了。
Like, hammering at a scientific truth, when someone has suffered.
当着一名受难者的面 坚守科学的真相,
That wasn't going to heal anything.
什么都治愈不了。
And maybe I was relying too much on science to find the truth.
或许是我过于 依赖科学寻求真相。
And it really did feel, at that moment,
那一刻我也感觉,
that there were a lot of truths in the room,
当面前摆着许多不同的真相,
and we were only looking at one of them.
我们却只专注于其中一个。
So I thought, "I've got to get better at this."
于是我心想, “我必须做得更好。”
And so for the next eight years,
于是在接下来的八年,
I committed myself to doing stories where you heard truths collide.
我全心投入了 有真相碰撞的故事。
We did stories about the politics of consent,
我们有关于“政治共识”的故事,
where you heard the perspective of survivors and perpetrators
幸存者和加害人的观点
whose narratives clashed.
相互碰撞。
We did stories about race,
我们讲述了关于种族,
how black men are systematically eliminated from juries,
关于黑人如何因体制原因 被陪审团拒之门外,
and yet, the rules that try and prevent that from happening
而本应防止该问题的规定
only make things worse.
又为何适得其反。
Stories about counter terrorism, Guantanamo detainees,
我们讲了关于反恐、 关塔那摩被拘留者的故事,
stories where everything is disputed,
争议和冲突无处不在,
all you can do is struggle to try and make sense.
你只能绞尽脑汁试着理出头绪。
And this struggle kind of became the point.
而挣扎似乎成了重点。
I began to think, "Maybe that's my job."
我心想:“也许这才是我的工作。”
To lead people to moments of struggle.
带领大家走向挣扎的刹那。
Here's what that sounded like:
而这次,大家的反应都是:
(Various voices) "But I see -- I, like --"
(各种声音) “但我知道——我就——”
"Uh, I --" (Sighs)
“呃,我——” (叹气)
"Well, so, like, huh --"
“哦,所以就是,呃——” (叹气)
"That, I mean, I --"
“我是说,我——”
"You know -- golly -- I --" (Sighs)
“你知道——天啊——我——” (叹气)
JA: And that sigh right there,
贾德:那声叹息,
I wanted to hear that sound in every single story,
就是我每次都想要听到的声音,
because that sound is kind of our current moment, right?
因为那声叹息基本上 代表了我们当下的境况,对吧?
We live in a world where truth is no longer just a set of facts
在我们所处的世界, 真相早已不是一系列
to be captured.
等待捕捉的事实。
It's become a process.
真相成了一个过程。
It's gone from being a noun to being a verb.
它从名词变成了动词。
But how do you end that story?
可这种故事该如何收尾?
Like, what literally kept happening is we'd be, you know, telling a story,
要知道,一直以来 我们都在讲一个故事,
cruising along, two viewpoints in conflict,
随着情节的发展, 两个观点互相冲突,
you get to the end and it's just like --
然后到了结尾就成了——
No, let me see.
不,我想想。
What do I say at the end?
我该怎么收尾?
Oh, my God.
哦,天啊。
What do you -- how do you end that story?
你该如何——如何为这故事收尾?
You can't just happily-ever-after it,
不能总是大团圆的结局,
because that doesn't feel real.
因为那太不真实了。
At the same time,
而同时,
if you just leave people in that stuck place,
如果你就把听众卡在那儿,
like, "Why did I just listen to that?"
大家就会觉得, “我刚刚听那些干嘛?”
Like, it felt like there had to be another move there.
我总感觉好像还差一步。
Had to be a way beyond the struggle.
超越挣扎的一步。
And this is what brings me to Dolly.
而就在此时,我接触了多莉。
Or Saint Dolly, as we like to call her in the South.
或者圣多莉, 我们南方人都这么叫她。
I want to tell you about one little glimmer of an epiphany that I had,
我想简短分享一下我在去年 制作九集系列节目
doing a nine-part series called "Dolly Parton's America" last year.
《多莉·帕顿的美国》时的感悟。
It was a bit of a departure for me,
这和我往常做的节目不太一样,
but I just had this intuition that Dolly could help me
但我的直觉告诉我,多莉能帮我
figure out this ending problem.
想通这个收尾的问题。
And here was the basic intuition:
基本的直觉大概是这样:
You go to a Dolly concert,
你去多莉的演唱会,
you see men in trucker hats standing next to men in drag,
能看到戴球帽和 穿女装的男人站在一起,
Democrats standing next to Republicans,
民主党和共和党站在一起,
women holding hands,
手牵手的女人,
every different kind of person smashed together.
形形色色的人聚在一起。
All of these people that we are told should hate each other
各种大家本认为应该势不两立的人
are there singing together.
聚在那里一起唱歌。
She somehow carved out this unique space in America,
她似乎在美国划出了 一块独特的空间,
and I wanted to know, how did she do that?
而我想知道, 她是如何做到的?
So I interviewed Dolly 12 times, two separate continents.
于是我横跨两片大陆, 访问了多莉十二次。
She started every interview this way:
她每次都这么开头:
(Audio) Dolly Parton: Ask me whatever you ask me,
(音频)多莉·帕顿: 问我任何你想问的,
and I'm going to tell you what I want to hear.
我只回答我想听的。
(Laughter)
(笑声)
JA: She is undeniably a force of nature.
贾德:她身上无疑 有一股自然的力量。
But the problem that I ran into
而我碰到了个问题:
is that I had chosen a conceit for this series
我为这系列节目 选择的一种幻想,
that my soul had trouble with.
让我心神不宁。
Dolly sings a lot about the South.
多莉的歌常以南方为主题。
If you go through her discography,
如果你听遍她的唱片,
you will hear song after song about Tennessee.
你会不断听到有关田纳西的歌曲。
(Music) DP: (Singing, various songs) Tennessee, Tennessee...
(音乐)多莉:(唱着各种歌) 田纳西,田纳西……
Tennessee homesick ...
田纳西乡愁……
I've got those Tennessee homesick blues runnin' through my head.
我脑海里充满了 田纳西乡愁引起的忧思。
Tennessee.
田纳西。
JA: "Tennessee Mountain Home," "Tennessee Mountain Memories."
贾德:《田纳西山舍》、 《忆田纳西山》。
Now I grew up in Tennessee,
我在田纳西长大,
and I felt no nostalgia for that place.
却从来没对那里怀有过故乡情。
I was the scrawny Arab kid
我一直是那个来自 发明人肉炸弹的地方、
who came from the place that invented suicide bombing.
干瘦的阿拉伯孩子。
I spent a lot of time in my room.
我在自己的房间里 度过了很多时光。
When I left Nashville,
当我离开纳什维尔时,
I left.
就是彻底离开了。
I remember being at Dollywood,
记得当时在多莱坞,
standing in front of a replica, replica of her Tennessee Mountain Home.
站在她田纳西山舍的仿造建筑前。
People all around me were crying.
我周围的人都在哭。
This is a set.
可这就是个布景而已,
Why are you crying?
有什么可哭的?
I couldn't understand why they were so emotional,
特别加上我和南方的关系,
especially given my relationship to the South.
我根本无法理解 他们为何那么情绪化。
And I started to honestly have panic attacks about this.
我甚至开始焦虑,怀疑自己。
"Am I not the right person for this project?"
“我是不是不适合做这个项目?”
But then ...
但接着……
twist of fate.
命运扭转。
We meet this guy, Bryan Seaver,
我遇到了布莱恩·西弗,
Dolly's nephew and bodyguard.
多莉的侄子兼保镖。
And on a whim, he drives producer Shima Oliaee and I
有一次,他心血来潮地带着我 和制作人西玛·欧莱俄
out of Dollywood,
开出多莱坞,
round the back side of the mountains,
绕到后山,
up the mountains 20 minutes,
往山上开了二十分钟,
down a narrow dirt road,
上了一条小泥路,
through giant wooden gates that look right out of "Game of Thrones,"
又穿过了类似《权力的游戏》中 那个巨大的木门,
and into the actual Tennessee Mountain Home.
来到了真正的田纳西山舍。
But the real place.
真正的地点——
Valhalla.
有如神殿——
The real Tennessee Mountain Home.
真正的田纳西山舍。
And I'm going to score this part with Wagner,
我要用瓦格纳的 音乐搭配这一段,
because you've got to understand,
因为你要知道,
in Tennessee lore,
在田纳西坊间,
this is like hallowed ground, the Tennessee Mountain Home.
田纳西山舍就算是圣地。
So I remember standing there, on the grass,
我记得站在那里的草地上,
next to the Pigeon River,
旁边流淌着鸽子河,
butterflies doing loopty loops in the air,
蝴蝶在空中轻飞曼舞,
and I had my own moment of wonder.
我拥有了属于自己惊奇的刹那。
Dolly's Tennessee Mountain Home
多莉的田纳西山舍
looks exactly like my dad's home in the mountains of Lebanon.
看上去完全就是我父亲 在黎巴嫩山中的家。
Her house looks just like the place that he left.
她的房子和他离开的地方一模一样。
And that simple bit of layering led me to have a conversation with him
而那一点连接, 促使我和父亲聊起了我们以前
that I'd never had before,
从未提及的话题,
about the pain he felt leaving his home.
他离开家乡时的痛苦,
And how he hears that in Dolly's music.
而他又如何与多莉的歌产生共鸣。
Then I had a conversation with Dolly where she described her songs
我后来和多莉访谈时, 她称自己的音乐为
as migration music.
迁移之曲。
Even that classic song,
就连那首经典的歌,
"Tennessee Mountain Home," if you listen to it --
《田纳西山舍》, 如果你仔细听——
(Dolly Parton "Tennessee Mountain Home")
(多莉·帕顿《田纳西山舍》)
"Sittin' on the front porch on a summer afternoon
“夏日午后的阳台上,
In a straight-backed chair on two legs,
坐在两条腿支撑的直背椅上,
leaned against the wall."
倾靠着墙。”
It's about trying to capture a moment that you know is already gone.
贾德:关键在于试图捕捉 你明知已经逝去的时刻。
But if you can paint it, vividly,
但如果你能生动地刻画它,
maybe you can freeze it in place, almost like in resin,
或许就能把它冻结起来, 像树脂做的琥珀,
trapped between past and present.
将它固定于过去与当下之间。
That is the immigrant experience.
这就是移民的体验。
And that simple thought led me to a million conversations.
而那一缕思绪带我 走进了千万场对谈。
I started talking to musicologists about country music as a whole.
我开始和音乐学家讨论 乡村音乐的整个体系。
This genre that I've always felt so
一种我一向感觉和我家乡
having nothing to do with where I came from
毫无关联的音乐风格,
is actually made up of instruments and musical styles
竟然由直接来自中东的
that came directly from the Middle East.
乐器和曲风组成。
In fact, there were trade routes that ran from what is now Lebanon
甚至有商路 从当今的黎巴嫩
right up into the mountains of East Tennessee.
直至田纳西东边的山上。
I can honestly say, standing there, looking at her home,
老实说,站在那儿,看着她的屋子,
was the first time I felt like I'm a Tennessean.
是我第一次感觉到 自己是一名田纳西人。
That is honestly true.
这就是真相。
And this wasn't a one-time thing,
而且,不仅这一次,
I mean, over and over again,
她还一而再,再而三
she would force me beyond the simple categories
迫使我突破了我曾为世界
I had constructed for the world.
创造的简单分类。
I remember talking with her about her seven-year partnership
我记得和她聊到 她和波特·瓦格纳
with Porter Wagoner.
长达七年的合作关系。
1967, she joins his band, he is the biggest thing in country music,
1967 年,多莉加入了他的乐队, 当时他已经是乡村音乐界的大咖,
she is a backup singer, a nobody.
而多莉只是后备歌手,无名之辈。
Within a short time, she gets huge,
然而很快,多莉火了起来,
he gets jealous,
他心生嫉妒。
he then sues her for three million dollars
多莉打算离开时,他起诉了多莉,
when she tries to leave.
索要三百万美金。
Now it would be really easy to see Porter Wagoner
从这一点,我们很容易 把波特·瓦格纳视为
as, like, a type: classic, patriarchal jackass,
一个典型的大男子主义混球,
trying to hold her back.
试图阻挡她的事业发展。
But any time I would suggest that to her,
但每次我向这方面暗示,
like, come on.
我说,拜托!
(Audio) This is a guy, I mean, you see it in the videos too,
(音频)这个男人, 你在视频里也看到了,
he's got his arm around you.
他用胳膊搂着你。
There's a power thing happening, for sure.
背后肯定有控制欲之类的情结。
DP: Well, it's more complicated than that.
多莉:哦,没那么简单。
I mean, just think about it.
你想想看。
He had had this show for years,
他演出了那么多年,
he didn't need me to have his hit show.
根本不需要我来让他爆红。
He wasn't expecting me to be all that I was, either.
他也没想到我是这样的人。
I was a serious entertainer, he didn't know that.
我是个认真的艺人, 他不知道。
He didn't know how many dreams I had.
他并不了解我的各种梦想。
JA: In effect, she kept telling me,
贾德:事实上,她还经常提醒我,
"Don't bring your stupid way of seeing the world into my story,
“不要把你愚昧的看法 强行加入我的故事,
because that's not what it was.
因为事实并非如此。
Yeah, there was power, but that's not all there was.
是的,这里的确有控制欲, 但还有其他的。
You can't summarize this."
你不能就这样盲目下结论。”
Alright, just to zoom out.
好,退后一步来看。
What do I make of this?
我能从中得到什么?
Well, I think there's something in here that's a clue, a way forward.
其实,我认为这其中 包含了如何前进的线索。
As journalists, we love difference.
我们记者喜欢,
We love to fetishize difference.
甚至迷恋差异。
But increasingly, in this confusing world,
但在这个混乱的世界,
we need to be the bridge between those differences.
我们更加需要桥梁来 连接事物之间的差异。
But how do you do that?
但是该怎么做呢?
I think for me, now, the answer is simple.
对于我而言,我觉得答案很简单。
You interrogate those differences,
你究诘这些差异,
you hold them for as long as you can,
并尽可能守住这些差异,
until, like up on that mountain,
直到最后,好比在那座山上,
something happens,
让答案自己道来,
something reveals itself.
自己呈现在你面前。
Story cannot end in difference.
故事不能以差异收场,
It's got to end in revelation.
只能以升华落幕。
And coming back from that trip on the mountain,
从那次上山之旅回来后,
a friend of mine gave me a book that gave this whole idea a name.
有朋友赠与了我一本书, 启发了我如何为这个想法取名。
In psychotherapy, there's this idea called the third,
在心理治疗学中, 有套叫“第三”的理论,
which essentially goes like this.
简单解释一下就是:
Typically, we think of ourselves as these autonomous units.
我们一般把自己 视为独立的个体。
I do something to you, you do something to me.
我为你做了点事, 你为我做了点事。
But according to this theory, when two people come together
但根据这套理论, 当两个人在一起
and really commit to seeing each other,
并真心想要了解对方时,
in that mutual act of recognition,
那种相互的认同
they actually make something new.
会萌生一个新的东西。
A new entity that is their relationship.
一个诠释他们关系的新载体。
You can think of Dolly's concerts as sort of a cultural third space.
你可以把多莉的演唱会 看作文化界的第三空间。
The way she sees all the different parts of her audience,
她看待不同观众的方式,
the way they see her,
观众看她的方式,
creates the spiritual architecture of that space.
在那个空间创造出了新的灵性结构。
And I think now that is my calling.
我认为那就是我的呼吁。
That as a journalist,
身为一名记者,
as a storyteller,
一名故事人,
as just an American,
一名美国人,
living in a country struggling to hold,
处身一个竭力挣扎中的国家,
that every story I tell has got to find the third.
我叙述的故事都必须 抵达“第三”的境界。
That place where the things we hold as different
只有在那儿,我们之间的差异
resolve themselves into something new.
才会化作新的可能。
Thank you.
谢谢。